In this third Episode in our series on Kindness Pastors Gregg Garner and Matthew Parker discuss the importance of receiving correction and rebuke with love and humility, emphasizing the need for open communication and understanding in relationships. They share personal anecdotes and reflections on the transformative power of correction when done with righteousness and kindness. They highlight the challenges of receiving feedback and stress the importance of approaching disagreements with a mindset of growth and love. The conversation also touches on the impact of past experiences on current interactions and the significance of engaging with God's word. Overall, the key takeaway is that correction, when approached with love and righteousness, can lead to positive growth and building each other up in the community.
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[00:00:09.75] - Matthew Parker
Hello. Hello. Hello. My name is Mitchell Buchanan. This is the Sermon podcast for the community church for God. As always, we are joined by people who have preached this last month at our church and joined by Greg Garner, Bible extraordinaire, fantastic Bible teacher, and blesses us every time we get to talk.
[00:00:30.10] - Gregg Garner
Mitch, you're so kind. Thank you.
[00:00:35.27] - Matthew Parker
then also joined by Matthew Parker. And then both of them actually spoke on kindness this month. So we're going to sit with Parker's sermon, this podcast. It was psalm 141 five. And then if you want to give just your couple, hey, this is the main things I was really driving at. And then we can kind of kick off a conversation from there.
[00:00:56.07] - Matthew Parker
maybe. Can I read three verses? This is my first sermon podcast. I don't know if it's appropriate to read verses. All right, so psalm 141 five, six, seven. Let the righteous strike me. Let the faithful correct me. Never let the oil of the wicked anoint my head, for my prayer is continually against their wicked deeds. When they are given over to those who shall condemn them, then they shall learn that my words were pleasant, like a rock that breaks apart and shatters on land, so shall our bones be strewn at the mouth of shale. And I realized when I was reading that, I was reading the NRSV. I don't know. The ESV is the one I preached out of, and it's. It has a couple differences, but you.
[00:01:39.29] - Mitchell Buchanan
Do you, man, you float that translation.
[00:01:41.96] - Matthew Parker
The main difference is verse six, where it says, when their judges are thrown over the cliff, they shall hear my words as pleasant. The NRSV treats it a little bit different. I think, really the crux of the verse, though, is verse five, let the righteous man strike me. It is a form of kindness. Let him rebuke me. Its oil for my head. And just exploring the reality of rebuke and correction. I think culturally, american culture, maybe millennials, are the most hypersensitive about correction. I'm not a generational student, but I feel like as an older millennial, correction is something I've really struggled with and makes my heart rate go up. I get sweaty. Your brain goes into a mode where you're trying to get defensive and figure out how that person's wrong or how they don't really understand the situation. And there's all this context. And it's interesting, though, that our flesh is built like that. But, you know, God's going to teach through this psalm and through a lot of other passages in scripture that man, correction is something that's good for you. And I think for me, what I tried to even do in the sermon was tell stories where I was able to remember moments of correction and then bring them into the light as something that was really healthy and helpful for my personal development. But there's an intention there, like, we have to actually sit with it and think through those moments of correction that maybe when we're in the shower, when we're alone and we're brooding and we're, like, in a bad mood, we're like, well, that was dumb. And if I. I don't know. It makes me think of Seinfeld when George. When George doesn't get to have his comeback.
[00:03:18.15] - Mitchell Buchanan
Jerk store.
[00:03:18.93] - Matthew Parker
The jerk store called
[00:03:21.30] - Mitchell Buchanan
You're just thinking through what you should have said.
[00:03:23.65] - Matthew Parker
Yeah, but anyways, I think people do that, and if they don't have a spouse or a roommate, who's going to hold them accountable to those thoughts and make sure that they're ensuring those thoughts are held in context to a biblical revelation from scripture, then it does become some divisive reality that now if you correct somebody, you might actually be causing a break in your relationship unknowingly. And for me, I wanted to utilize my stories in my sermon to prevent that. And I wanted to speak against it, and I wanted to even say directly, I think I tried to communicate clearly to congregation that this is an issue we have as a body, and it's something that needs dealt with because God is going to correct you. People who love you are going to correct you. Your spouse, your roommate are going to correct you. People in authority, leadership, and our ministry are going to correct you. And if every time it happens, it's a negative experience, you're going to have a real problem growing.
[00:04:14.77] - Mitchell Buchanan
Right? No, I think it was, your sermon was so great in how personal, how, like, even personal and connected you were to it. And I think in a way, like, church wide, where it's not like, to be able to talk about, I think, conflicts that we've had, or, hey, this was a correction. Guess what? Someone didn't take it well, and then they're gone, and it's like they had issues. It's like, for, I think, many churches, this is like the story of, like, a church split or, like a huge fight. And I think finding a comfortability where it's like, no, like, even the passage of righteous striking and, like, being comfortable with that correction. Like, if we can talk broadly as a church, like, hey, there's been some disagreements, like, we are following, like, here's how we're following God's word. Here's how, like, we're still maintaining the unity of our, of our body and, like, centering on that word. It's like, I think it's refreshing to even be able to testify of, like, hey, we've had, you know, we've had conflicts in our, in our midst and, like, we're still here focused on God's word, still here to push forward on, like, what we're doing. I thought that was a great, like, aspect of, um, what you brought up because you had so many personal stories and, like, really just testified, like, your, in Gregg's relationship a number of times of like, hey, this guy is like someone who is like, in ways where it's like, your mind, like, the correctional happen. Your mind is like, the world is crumbling, that wall is falling. I'm hiding in the depths of my soul. Yeah, but, like, you have a little time and just like, the reiteration, the passage path, the passage, if it's a righteous person, even if it feels like a strike, like, you can quickly get to the place where it's like, no, it can be like an oil. It can be like, so, like, amending for you if you can get your mind to the place where you're actually receiving that. And I think highlighting even Greg's example of, like, a righteous person was like, hey, are you actually advising people with God's word or not? And it's like, that is something where it's like, if we can have that filter of God's word, of like, hey, where is that in this correction? And if so, like, we trust one another to be seeking the Lord, like, seeking God's righteousness. Like, I think we can switch that perspective.
[00:06:27.06] - Gregg Garner
Yeah, that's good stuff. I believe the Hebrew word used here that we translate as kindness is khsed, right?
[00:06:36.24] - Matthew Parker
Yeah.
[00:06:37.06] - Gregg Garner
And I think that's a key to this text because if you read it in English, it could sound like the righteous person striking me. That's a kind thing to do in the. The way we define kindness. Maybe like a mannerism. There's a politeness to it, like a genteel. Yeah. And in that case, it becomes almost a communication that is abstract. So that you're having to think about, like, the approach, like, to other people, it could seem like it's a strike, but actually, to me it was kinda. But the term has said here is highlighting the commitment that people have to each other. The covenant love.
[00:07:26.20] - Matthew Parker
Yeah, for sure.
[00:07:27.37] - Gregg Garner
That they have for one another. And so Mitch, when you talked about the prerequisite component of the person who's doing the striking, being a righteous person, we do recognize that that's a righteousness that doesn't come from themselves or from us, but it comes from God. So this person is going to be acting according to the word of God. And if it does end up in a correction, that kindness consideration is connected to the fact that they're being loyal to you. They're being covenantally committed to your righteous well being, which is why they're saying that in the first place. So instead of thinking of the correction or the rebuke or the striking as just another mechanism to put you in your place, whereby that person has the authority to do that because they're a teacher or leader or pastor or they know the Bible instead, we can even think of this less in the superior subordinate consideration, but more in the horizontal of accountability that says, hey man, I'm telling you a hard thing right now because I love you and I'm committed to you. Like right before we got rolling here, the three of you guys, Chris is on the other side of the camera. Three of you guys did me a kindness in this context by helping to correct some of the malperceptions I was having with regard to the way I was perceiving a situation. My imaginations, I'm a human being, were grabbing onto my emotions and getting me to think about things in a way that I believe because you guys are committed to me and you love me with the covenant love of Christ, you don't want me to be there. So you have to correct that. I can. I can choose to acknowledge your hesed, your, your loyal, steadfast, committed covenant love for me in that moment and humble myself into the reception of that correction. And it doesn't have to be painful the way that we perceive it. And I really do believe the key is in recognizing that the righteous component that you're addressing is prerequisite to the effort altogether. Because if I am going to correct you according to righteousness, I'm doing so out of love. Because I recognize that this is our obligation in our covenant before God and to one another. I'm going to make sure that the way you're thinking, the way you're acting, the way you're feeling is in accordance to the reign of God, the rule of God. I just think it's really important to grab that this kindness word again isn't a tact or an approach. It's not a tone that you use. It's not the sensation you feel on the other end of that rebuke. It is evidence of the covenant love that you share with one another as a result of the righteous position you want to exist in before God. So we tell the truth in love, we're going to build each other up through that kind of truth. And I can say that your guys has time even just sharing your little anecdotes in a very casual conversation. I feel corrected, and I also feel built up. So it's not like it has to be one or the other. They can go together, because what's been corrected in me is something that wasn't righteous, something that wasn't right. So now what's left is able to blossom. You know, it's kind of like when Jesus uses the parable of the wheat and tares. Part of the issue with having tares in your garden or in your farmstead is that it's taking up the resources that should go to the wheat. So your guys correction of me is actually freeing up resources that were being stolen or taken away from a misperception I had that now is able to go towards the kind of righteous work that I can do because I'm no longer encumbered by my thought process. That just wasn't healthy. Am I making sense?
[00:11:51.49] - Matthew Parker
Praise God.
[00:11:52.22] - Gregg Garner
And when we recognize that, when we can recognize in one another that that's coming from a righteous disposition, because we are covenant, committed to each other, it has us looking at each other as human beings instead of looking for right answers. And I find that to be a theme this week in my conversations with people. So many folks are looking for the right answer or the right thing that makes everything good. But Paul the apostle communicates that that's kind of the way kids think. He's like, when I was a child, I thought as a child and I spoke as a child. Now, the implication through the next part of the verse is that now, having put away childish things, I recognize that I know in part. I recognize that I see in part, and that when I believe myself to have a clear perspective, it's actually a fogged up window. That's the adult now talking, right? So part of being a kid is thinking that it's about being right or being wrong. But growing up and becoming an adult is recognizing that I am incapable of seeing, speaking, doing anything in such an absolute fashion that I am definitively tied to that being right. And instead, I do need the perspective of brothers and sisters, of community to help me see what I can't see. And that's part of the covenant, righteous obligation. But it's countercultural because you're an adult. You should know this for yourself.
[00:13:30.50] - Matthew Parker
Yeah.
[00:13:31.34] - Gregg Garner
Rather than becoming the kind of adult that humbles himself and says, guys, this is how I'm seeing it. What do you think? And then for the righteousness of God to emerge in people to say, hey, that's not healthy. That's not good.
[00:13:45.59] - Mitchell Buchanan
It's even, like. Because, I mean, prepping for this time. I was super blessed by our conversation before this, and it feels like a correction or something is going to be very combative. And, like, what we just did wasn't even that combative. But it's like, I think personally, coming to a place where you're willing to let go of your perspective or your preconceived notions and allow other people full of faith, you know, that's our presumption. It's our trust.
[00:14:12.21] - Gregg Garner
Yeah.
[00:14:13.37] - Mitchell Buchanan
Can even offer a corrective guide to that. Because I think we go in thinking like, oh, this is a correction. I've got to build myself up for battle. Cause I need to, like, you know, come against Parker. I saw him, you know, doing x, y, or z, and I've got to, like, call him into account. It's like, really, if we can all bring ourselves to a place where it's like, hey, we're all becoming, like, we're all striving to be like, christ. If we can not close in our perspective but open it up and say, like, hey, you know, in this conversation, like, this is the things I'm hearing. It's like, hey, like, you don't have to be subject to that. You know, it's like, this is not the reality that, like, is true. I'm not hearing that. Are you hearing that? You know, it's like, it becomes more of a much more fragile thing where you're opening yourself up to, like, hey, I am nothing locked into, like, what you're saying, locked into that truth or that perspective. I'm like, okay, I'm vulnerable now. Hey, you can help give me input. You can help shape me. That's, like. Was really interesting. Cause I think even a lot of Parker's sermon was that kind of, like, confrontational thing. And it's like, to be able to have a corrective that is helping to build up at the same time because it's about shifting perceptions as opposed to, you know, like, coming in to, like.
[00:15:30.01] - Gregg Garner
And that's. That's the thing about Parker stories is that I was on the other side of them.
[00:15:34.51] - Matthew Parker
Yeah.
[00:15:34.89] - Gregg Garner
And so I know that first of all, he's a fantastic storyteller, and storytellers have dramaticism attached to them. Right. And so there's some aspects that are intentionally hyperbolized so as to communicate the feelings you had in the moment. Exactly right. But I also know, being on the other side of that conversation, that Parker knows I love him and he loves me. And we were able to even have the conversation because of that righteousness. And my intent was to. Because of my commitment to this guy. Commitment to what? To his growth, to his health, to his wellness, his overall well being. Because that's what we're supposed to be doing for one another, building each other up in love. Right. Because I have that covenant commitment to God, even for him. And then he has that covenant commitment to God where he could even trust that as a brother in Christ, my job is not to tear him down. We hear each other differently, and in that case, it becomes a kindness to you. See, what I'm trying to bring about here is that we can shift our mentality during a time of correction or rebuke to not just think, oh, that was harsh. That came about real tough. But hey, you know what? That's okay. Because that's also kindness. But instead, recognizing that my mentality on the scenario can change right now. I can, while I'm hearing this, recognize this is love. Because the most common way we translate the term cassette is love. Yeah, that's the most common way we translate it, but it doesn't make sense in our current context. So we would say kindness here, but it is highlighting that love element, that faithfulness, the covenant keeping, relationship binding expression that we have in our stewardship of relationships. So what if when someone who is righteous is rebuking me, I could just flip the script on how I'm hearing it and go, man, this is because this person loves me. I'll receive it so differently.
[00:17:44.29] - Matthew Parker
Yeah, 100%
[00:17:45.83] - Gregg Garner
And I. And I can testify that's what you would do most of the time. There were a couple times where you were like, oh, for sure. A little defensive.
[00:17:52.50] - Matthew Parker
Oh, well, yeah, but.
[00:17:53.96] - Gregg Garner
but I'd say in recent years. I'd say in recent years, you would even verbally express me. No, no, Greg, I. Man, I'm trying not to hear this negatively, but I know you love me, and so I'm hearing it. You would literally. Speak those words out loud.
[00:18:09.74] - Mitchell Buchanan
It's a good practice. You do. You're, like a good example. And I think continuing in faith of, like, you know, having the conversation. But, like, I think, like, taking away the power that your, like, your anxiety would have of, like, hey, I'm hearing you this way. You're, like, by even saying it, you're taking it away, and, like, pushing forward in faith, like, I'm gonna resolve this. You know what I'm saying?
[00:18:30.23] - Matthew Parker
Yeah.
[00:18:30.53] - Gregg Garner
And I think being adults, like I was referencing the Pauline text in Corinthians, being adults helps us to recognize we, like, from the outset, I'm not seeing this whole thing right. I see in part, even when I'm telling you my perspective on it, we prophesy in part, like, our most truthful communications are partial. And if we can all have the sense of safety that exists in a congregation of believers who are trying to live righteous according to God's word, there's comfort to that. And I think it has to work across the board. Most of my life, all of my adult life, I've been in the leadership position, and I have been able to recognize that leaders are treated differently than people who aren't leaders. That can sometimes be good. I think it can sometimes be bad. But this text is not about hierarchies. It's not about. It doesn't give us any prerequisites for who is the one receiving the correction and who the one is doling it out. Instead, it's giving us a way of understanding how we love each other, how we understand this as a kindness to one another and even the anointing oil element in it. I think that it's really important to remember that that apparatus or that modality of. Of ceremony was to consecrate people, to separate them, because the kind of activity we're talking about here is super uncommon. It is not typical. And we have to recognize that we act like this because we've been consecrated. We're different. I do not have to hear this person in front of me who I've known for x amount of years, who claims the love of God. I do not have to hear them, is biting me down and tearing me apart. I can have the mind of Christ here and hear them is trying to love me. And that is a very mature way of approaching the situation. But it also demonstrates how different we are when we can get there. And I think that that is a really hard situation because it works for both parties. Have you guys ever had a person in their desire to be righteous try to rebuke you and they were wrong?
[00:21:00.00] - Matthew Parker
I think so. But we know the story come to mind.
[00:21:03.75] - Gregg Garner
I have had it happen so many times
[00:21:05.94] - Matthew Parker
Oh yeah I guess I have with younger people who are trying to take a position of righteousness, but they lack a lot in regards to context and reality.
[00:21:14.08] - Gregg Garner
Yeah, sometimes people just lack context, facts, information, and so they're trying to make a judgment.
[00:21:22.86] - Mitchell Buchanan
We have a three hour pod where we're just calling out specific people here.
[00:21:26.72] - Matthew Parker
Let's do it.
[00:21:27.73] - Mitchell Buchanan
Oh, yeah.
[00:21:30.55] - Gregg Garner
But the problem that we don't want to have is that now a person looks at themselves and goes, that's probably me. I'm missing facts. And then they don't attempt to engage in this healthy process of covenant love, and so they don't say anything.
[00:21:49.81] - Mitchell Buchanan
Right, right.
[00:21:50.83] - Gregg Garner
What I know of most people is that they may not say anything to that person, but they're gonna, like, bounce it off the walls with their spouse or their friends. And now you're teetering very closely to gossip and potentially slander at that point because you're not trying to exercise this proverbial wisdom that exists in the psalm here for how it is that we can exhibit righteousness within our covenant keeping relationships. So I know that as a leader, that's probably intimidating for people, but I have had people do their best to love on me in that way and be very wrong and it not negatively impact me at all. I receive what they're saying and then I have to give them more facts, and then them go, oh, wow, I didn't know that. I guess that kind of changes what I'm saying here. But then I can tell them, hey, but listen, the way that you perceive that, probably other people perceived it that way as well. Recently I was teaching a class, and my wife is in the class, and I made a statement. And after class asked her how went, she told me I went, great. And she goes, except there was this one thing that you said that it might come off as you expressing yourself in this way. And I was like, well, that's not the way I'm trying to come off. I said it the way I said it, and it's clear. Go listen to the recording. It's very clear. I thought about all of those considerations, and I caveated them away. And she goes, well, I still heard it that way because she's my wife. It's much easier to go, she loves me.
[00:23:37.52] - Matthew Parker
Yeah. Yeah, for sure.
[00:23:38.27] - Gregg Garner
This is not just a mean rebuke. She's looking out for me. She cares about me. She cares about our ministry. She cares about righteousness. So the next class, I started off the class and said, hey, everybody, last class, I made a statement and went along these lines. You got a homework assignment that was added that evening as a result of a potential misinterpretation of what I was saying. And I want to be clear that this is what I'm saying, and I'm not saying this, and I hope that helps somebody out there. There were. It wasn't many, but there were a few, which is enough, that were confused by what I said and were indeed offended in the way that Tara had thought they were. So she. In that scenario, she was wrong about the way the majority perceived it. She was wrong about even the way I technically said it, but she was right about the way a few people perceived it and how it was that she heard it. See, that's grown up stuff. Yeah, that's grown up stuff. Cause kids just want to be like, yeah, but she was wrong because of this. And the majority are. That grown up stuff says man. Like, living as a human being is complex and the diversity of people not intended to see things all in the same way, but where we recognize beauty and the diversification of perspective, like, there has to be some extra covenantal care to make sure that we are exhibiting righteousness in the way that we believe demonstrates the presence of God in our lives. So, as a leader, I'm thankful to have a wife that can do that for me. At the same time, as a leader, I hope to have friends and brothers and sisters in the congregation that will also do that, recognizing you don't have to be right to be righteous in this context. Does that make sense? Yeah.
[00:25:46.82] - Mitchell Buchanan
Yeah, yeah.
[00:25:48.08] - Matthew Parker
I think, too, the consideration of the hesed covenant love, it really tests our relationships when we experience rebuke from one another and when we give it. Because I think, for me, when I was younger and I experienced rebuke, even. Even in situations that me and you shared, I think even because I hadn't developed into the kind of authority where I would have to extend that kind of rebuke, I didn't even understand what it was like to have to give it. So then, as I grew up, and I realized in that moment, when I am giving it, I'm so full of love and a desire to protect and care. That's where it's coming from. I'm not trying to, like, organize a power structure that's beneficial to me or it would to have a worldly mentality about authority, but I think that if we don't have that covenant love, those worldly mentalities about authority really impact how we respond to one another. There's an assumption that something negative is happening.
[00:26:41.86] - Gregg Garner
There's an assumption and that negative assumption is not righteous.
[00:26:44.69] - Matthew Parker
It's. No, it's not. It's definitely not from God.
[00:26:47.06] - Gregg Garner
Yeah. Because when Paul the apostle works with the concept of Hesed, interpreted into his greek context, he gives us first corinthians 13 and he lets us know that this kind of love is patient. This kind of love is not going to boast, it's not going to be celebratory over when something wrong has happened, but it's also not going to remember that wrong. And it's going to have an enduring capacity because it just won't fail. It's going to bring about healing, resolution, reconciliation. So he is talking about the concept that we're reading in this verse and it's a really beautiful chapter in and of itself. But when you understand it in the context of how it is that we're supposed to care for each other, it puts us in a different position. Because when you're looking at those traits, they're not aggressive, they could be assertive. They're definitely not aggressive, but they seem to hinge more on the side of passive. It's being patient, not remembering certain things, not boasting. Like the kindness element does have to do with like. In other words, it is taking a positive position in terms of your interaction with somebody. You are not starting with the negative. You are not going into this assuming the worst. You are going into it recognizing that even if something is bad, forgiveness is the next mechanism to implement here. So it can't be altogether that bad. That's why love never fails. That's why this kind of love is always going to bring about the righteous results that God intends for us. So we are built up
[00:28:38.89] - Mitchell Buchanan
Disciplinging your mind to do that is so, it's so hard because it's so natural, I think, to a strike. It's so natural of someone speaking into my person of like, hey, you're seeing that wrong. It's like everything in me is like, I am definitely not. You know, it's like it feels so invasive and it can feel like it is. It's trying to take something from me or it's trying to constrict me in some way, but it. To discipline our mind to, I think, be open to just that exercise, you know, of like, hey, like, let's talk about it.
[00:29:14.85] - Gregg Garner
And that's what the psalmist is saying here with that permissive verb. Let's let this righteous person strike me. Let it right. Like there's. It's. It's this admission that I know the benefit of what happens if a righteous person has to engage in a rebuke towards me? And I'm going to hear it with love. I count it as an act of their kindness, an act of love. So let them do it. It's like giving permissions towards that. So this person is definitely matured. And I think this kind of maturation comes on the other side of getting beat up really bad and not in a loving, caring way. You've just been tossed and humbled and you have no more energy yet to fight for yourself. Well, when you realize that there's growth and that there's life on the other side of actually experiencing the righteousness of God through people who love you, you start to invite it. You start to just say, yeah, man, if you see something, talk to me. Let me know how welcome it. Even if it's going to be a hard conversation with you, just have it with me because I need it. That mentality is strong, which even Parker.
[00:30:30.03] - Mitchell Buchanan
From your sermon, I think you had mentioned that our church could, like, has struggled with, I think, this level of correction. And I think a question was, do you feel that? Where would. Where would our body overall most benefit of, like, being able to receive a correction that, like, hey, are we. Are we not hearing those, like, loving, kind words that people have to correct us, or are we not faithfully taking that step to. I think, hey, I kind of see something here, and I'm not having this conversation. It's easier just to, like, pat on the back and say, see you later, like, because I feel like you've. You've mentioned that a couple of times. Like, hey, our church needs to improve in this. Like, we've been through this. Are you coming from one of those angles, or is it just, like, all together?
[00:31:12.42] - Matthew Parker
Yeah, I think for me, what I've experienced is when the rebuke is happening, a person might have something even they want to contribute. Not to say it's going to, like, dissolve the rebuke to where the rebuke is no longer needed, but they have some kind of frustration or something. I more want to encourage people. You need to speak up, because what ends up happening is somebody's loving you and they're correcting you. And then later you're having this other conversation in your head where you're like, well, that wasn't fair and this wasn't that. Then you have these conversations with other people. What do you think? And now there's like this, you know, judicial review, where you're getting your other lawyers or judges together and you're wanting them to hear your case without hearing the case of the person who corrected you for me. I think that's all just so unnecessary energy where it just should be in that moment, like we were saying earlier, like it makes me feel more comfortable in a moment when I'm being corrected or I'm being even asked a question. Like, there's times where Greg's probably asked me a budget question, well, how come this wasn't included in the budget? But what I heard was, why didn't you think about that in the budget? What's freaking wrong with you, dude? Do you know anything? Have you been taught, you know, that's what's happening in me. And if I don't say anything about, hey, are you. Are you upset? No, no, I just want to know. And I've actually. I don't know if it's just your personality, but I don't know you're talking to me. Yeah. I don't know if I've known people who are just asking genuine questions. I think sometimes, and it could even be revealing of something I need to grow in myself, where there's like an insinuation. So I assume there's an insinuation on the other side of the comment.
[00:32:48.32] - Gregg Garner
You know, I have actually gotten into a lot of conflict because I ask questions and people think I'm asking something. I'm not actually.
[00:32:55.74] - Matthew Parker
Like, you're trying to get to something.
[00:32:57.16] - Gregg Garner
Yeah.
[00:32:57.46] - Matthew Parker
Yeah.
[00:32:57.80] - Gregg Garner
I've had quite a few conflicts where I even get kind of surprised and I have to just apologize. I can even see how they thought that when they bring it up. But in those moments, I just. I know that I'm responsible to make a decision, usually, and I can't make a good decision unless I have information. And so I ask questions, or sometimes I will make a comment that includes information that I don't fully have all the information for, so I'll need to further ask. But, yeah, I have noticed that that creates conflict sometimes for people.
[00:33:37.88] - Matthew Parker
And even earlier we were talking about how we'll bring in other negative experiences we've had into a moment. And so it's like, for me, I think with my dad, he was a very temperamental person. I love my dad, but I hated that aspect of him. I hated when he would get upset and it would be over. The stupidest things. Somebody in a luxury vehicle cutting him off, that was like a classic, like a Mercedes Benz cuts him off on the interstate. It would ruin his day, would ruin. And I remember when I was a teenager, I, like, developed the confidence to be like, dad, why do you act like that? Like, we were having a great day until you got angry. So now, in moments when I feel like somebody is angry with me and a friend is like, you know, engaging, that there's some kind of small t trauma in me that is, like, kind of awakening and being like, I don't like this. But I have. I wasn't aware of that, you know, when I was younger. So the more I become aware of that, I'm like, well, that's not healthy. That's obviously not what's happening. But if we don't do the work associated with loving one another, hearing somebody.
[00:34:35.82] - Gregg Garner
Is loving us, and recognizing that you don't need to be certified, licensed 100% to do it, and you just need to be someone who loves somebody.
[00:34:44.40] - Matthew Parker
Right.
[00:34:44.96] - Mitchell Buchanan
And is faithful to correct. You're literally unfaithful as a friend, as, like, someone who's close. If you're not gonna say, you know.
[00:34:53.71] - Gregg Garner
I had somebody tell me after. This happens to me often, unfortunately. But it was after a couple years of them being upset with me for something, and I had no idea. They let me know that they were really upset about something I said to them, and I told them, you know, I'm really sorry. I didn't know that I was being perceived in that way. And I can see that that was upsetting. Please forgive me. And they're like, yeah, I can forgive you, but are you gonna do this to somebody else? I'm like, gosh, I hope not. Not trying to. And then they're like, what? When you talk like that to somebody, what did you. What do you expect them to do? I said, well, in your case, I've known you for. It's been a while. And I said, I just expect you to look me in the eyes and maybe even just put your hand on my shoulder. Maybe you touched my face and be like, yo, this is uncharacteristic of you, and this is hurting my feelings, and I don't think you intend this.
[00:35:53.50] - Matthew Parker
Right.
[00:35:54.98] - Gregg Garner
And that would have changed everything for me in that moment. Now the person goes, well, it was a zoom call, so I was like, okay, fine, you get the point. You get the point. Like, we should be able to talk to each other. Cause that would have stung in the moment because I could just. I'm a dad, too. I can imagine. I've had scenarios where I think at least part of my day has been ruined as a result of something dumb, like being cut off by a car and then me acting like that, and I've seen in my kids where they're like, dad, you're ruining everything. So I can, I can totally empathize with your dad, but there's something different about when someone that, you know, loves you just says, hey, that's, I'm sorry that that happened and it's really affecting you right now. But, but gosh, look at the good things that are happening right now. You got the family in the car and we're on our way to have a really good time.
[00:36:44.21] - Matthew Parker
Yeah.
[00:36:45.17] - Gregg Garner
You want me to drive? Like, they're just. And that's stinging. Yeah, that is a strike at that, at that point, because it could sound like you're being super nice and indirect, but at that point, you're just accommodating the love that you have for this person because you're committed to them and in righteousness, you want to make sure that they're not, to quote Paul the apostle, disqualifying themselves, at least for that moment in that day, from the ways in which they could be experiencing the goodness of God. And I know that I want to be the kind of person, there is no human being immune from needing correction. All of us need it. And us leaders, because we talk more, the Bible will tell us we're going to fall short and offend more. Right. Because where there are a lot of words, sins in proximity, like there's going to be somebody offended by something. So we need the assistance of loving people around us to just say, hey, this came off this way. Did you intend it that way? I didn't think you did. But I want to make sure, or whatever it is that stings in the moment. But if you can realize a person saying, this loves me, you can work through it. And I think it's the most healthy way, and it's the best way to be an adult in Christ.
[00:38:09.09] - Mitchell Buchanan
Yeah, for sure. I thought this is the best. This was awesome. Just talking freely and engaging. Parker's sermon from psalms 141. So every week we come to church, let's not leave our sermons there. I think it's just, just such a healthy exercise to talk through God's word. I think digging beyond even just a sermon and figuring out how does this, you know, engage my everyday life. So this was great. If you're listening, obviously subscribe. Obviously give a like. Thanks, Chris Cameron, for recording all these. And until we see you next time at church, the community church for God. Let me get the official plug. Thanks for listening.
[00:38:51.59] - Gregg Garner
Peace.
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