In this second episode in our series on Grit, Mitchell Buchanan, Deb Nava, and Jason Carpenter discuss the concept of grit in the face of suffering and persecution, drawing parallels to early Christians. They emphasize the importance of rejoicing in hardships as a sign of faith and resilience. The speakers reflect on the impact of digital communication on church community connections and stress the power of in-person interactions. They encourage vulnerability and sharing moments of rejoicing to find strength and support. The conversation concludes with a message of encouragement to seek truth and resilience in daily life.
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[00:00:11.92] - Mitchell Buchanan
Hello. Hello, hello. Welcome to the Sermon podcast for the church community for God. My name is Mitchell Buchanan. Hopefully, you've listened to us before. This is the Sermon podcast. We're pumped that you're listening with us today. We have a couple of our preachers from our series on Grit, which I think has been a fun little adventure. We're with Jason Carpenter over here. Hello. And Deb Nava.
[00:00:37.50] - Deb Nava
Hello.
[00:00:38.10] - Mitchell Buchanan
Hello. How are you?
[00:00:39.85] - Deb Nava
Great.
[00:00:41.14] - Mitchell Buchanan
But again, this is the time that we have to come together, and we're gonna really chat through Deb's sermon on one. Peter, I think grit, if you want to chat about for a second, you don't have to. It feels like you both referenced in your sermons. This isn't in the Bible anywhere, so nobody tests me on this. Nobody look anything up. But it's definitely a concept that we see throughout the Bible and something that we should carry as believers of, like, hey, we aren't the type of people that are easily pushed off of our course or, like, that. This. I think this walk that we live and, like, participate with the Lord can be hard. It can be, like, arduous. It can take effort and work, and it's like, we need to be those people that endure, that hold on and, like, sustain. I don't know. That was my little.
[00:01:29.57] - Deb Nava
Absolutely.
[00:01:32.29] - Mitchell Buchanan
Got a couple of. Yes, yes man, yes, woman. I'm steering this train wherever I want today. We're gonna get wild, but this is kind of how we always start. Deb, if you want to just walk through, hey, this is the text I started from. And then here's a couple of my main points. If you want to dive into, like, I was. You know, this is where it came from in my life of, like, kind of, you know, what I was thinking through when I was coming up with a sermon, then we'll just kind of go from there.
[00:01:57.53] - Deb Nava
Yeah, sounds great. All right. So, first, Peter 4:12. Beloved, do not be surprised at the fiery ordeal that is taking place among you to test you as though something strange are happening to you. But rejoice insofar as you are sharing Christ's sufferings so that you may also be glad and shout for joy when his glory is revealed. Yeah, so a few of these, you know, that's the Bible. That's the word. So I've actually never done, like, a full study or anything on one, Peter, so I kind of had to do, like, some homework on the front end, but there wasn't anything particularly new or different from some of the other sermons I had done, because this was very early, early church. There's lots of crazy persecution going on. I went over who Nero was and how he was kind of a kooky leader, and he just presented a lot of challenging situations for the church at that time.
[00:03:01.72] - Mitchell Buchanan
I love that you're like, Nero was kooky, and we all giggled, and he was, like, ultra violent. Like, I hate christians. Like, there were some challenges, and he's just like, I hate you all.
[00:03:15.77] - Deb Nava
Yeah. Like, he literally invented ways of torture specifically for them. So, yeah, beyond kooky. Yeah, yeah. But, yeah. So that's the context. And I think it's ultra important, you know, for us to understand, like, how the church of that time was receiving that message, because it was so specific to their historical moment. And even though it's easy to, like, quickly want to apply it to our moment, I feel like it's so important to understand the emotional, social, economic, all the challenges that we're facing. The believers at this time. It was from all directions. It was just a full blown, just persecution and challenge. And that requires. And it's so early in their faith. And I think I talked about this, too. They're so young in faith, but yet they're still required to, like, show this endurance and this grit and this, like, this kind of character that usually people get, like, a little bit of, like, you know, like, run up to, but it's like, they're thrown into it. And I just think a lot about, like, how. How challenging that is. Even if you are further along in your faith and you come up. You come up against, like, some really terrible experiences that test you and make you question everything and call out to God, and they're just kind of thrown into it. There's no, like, run up to it. It's like, this is their moment, and they have to exhibit this type of character and this grit that's like, wow, that's a lot to expect from, like, baby christians, you know, like. But I think it's also, even though they're so young in their faith, they still have. We still have something to learn from, from the way that they were being spoken to and then the way that they responded to their moment. Yeah.
[00:05:06.02] - Jason Carpenter
I was actually thinking about, like, in your sermon, you referenced the different types of suffering that people experience. Some is just a product of being a human, and then some of it, like, you're referencing now as a product of your decision to follow a calling. So even those people who. It's one thing to experience suffering that you have no power to avoid, but then to, like, answer a calling, to, like, follow Jesus, knowing that immediately it will have negative impact on your life. That's like a whole nother like thing, you know? Yeah. So I know that's interesting how. How that would impact a person's life, because, like, when I started following Jesus, I did not have to think about whether I was gonna suffer.
[00:05:50.37] - Deb Nava
Right.
[00:05:50.82] - Mitchell Buchanan
You know, the power team didn't lay that one out. They didn't make that clear.
[00:05:55.18] - Jason Carpenter
Mitch is referencing for all you listeners out there.
[00:05:58.29] - Mitchell Buchanan
We all know, Jason. We all love it.
[00:06:01.62] - Jason Carpenter
Motherfy listens to all of our.
[00:06:03.13] - Mitchell Buchanan
I'm just kidding, dude. I'm just kidding. You can get enough shares. Share the.
[00:06:06.83] - Jason Carpenter
I got saved by the power team. All right.
[00:06:10.41] - Mitchell Buchanan
Which is a group of athletes or former athletes that do herculean, literal feats of strength. And then you're gonna have a gospel presentation for Jesus.
[00:06:19.31] - Jason Carpenter
Yeah.
[00:06:20.01] - Mitchell Buchanan
Anyway, they did not spell out the.
[00:06:22.20] - Jason Carpenter
They didn't say I was gonna.
[00:06:23.66] - Mitchell Buchanan
Yeah.
[00:06:24.08] - Jason Carpenter
If to say the least.
[00:06:26.87] - Mitchell Buchanan
Right.
[00:06:28.06] - Jason Carpenter
So, yeah, I think that's really, like you're saying. I think it is important to, like, note man in. In this context, in one Timothy. It's like, these are the things these believers are having to think about. So how does that. What does that mean to us now? You know, like, I don't know. It's interesting because you did bring up, like, your experiences in China, and, like, there are christians there that have to, like, do have to make those considerations immediately upon making the decision. Yeah, yeah.
[00:06:54.91] - Mitchell Buchanan
And I think overall, there's so often, like, texts like this. I think we get in a. Not a habit, but in a position in our day and age where we have to just extrapolate, hey, this is, you know, suffering. Endure this suffering. And the fire or fire ordeal for us is when you feel stretched financially or, you know, we have to try to equate it to what we're experiencing, where we're so rarely experiencing suffering or persecution. And then I think for our church community, knowing what happened with Craig and Tara, it's like that is. And as a result, our entire community, not just, hey, this was them. But that moment, I think, of literal hate, that imprisonment or wrongful accusations or all the fallout from that persecution, I think it gives a lot more tangible ways to feel this, you know, and it's. Nothing just has to be written off of. Like, that was their day and age for us. It looks differently, which I think should give us a way that we can practically think through how this is working. So one of the questions I had, Jason split up. There's different ways that you spelled out three different ways of suffering, which, if I did my homework right, it's just being a person. So, hey, I have eczema. Hey, me too. Hey, shout out. Hey, I'm really pressed in my time, whatever's going on, or I had a family member pass away, that time and chance happens to us all. We're going to go through things we can't control every chaotic element. And it is what it is. You said another way of suffering is consequences of our actions, which we all also suffer to varying degrees. And then the third was suffering, you know, alongside Christ or for Christ's sake. And I think kind of what. What sparked me in a question was that there's an intentionality in the text, you know, where we have to intentionally engage this. What does it look like to suffer with Christ? So how do we do that? I think overall, in our world, where I think in the US, we're just a seemingly a post christian nation where no one really takes offense at, oh, I'm going to church. It's just so indifferent to, I think, faith or religion, where I would think most people are not prescribing to a lifestyle of faith. Right. I think in general, it's just so nominal and has been written off as a cultural expression you might have of how you were raised, but it doesn't have much tangibility to our everyday lives. So it seems for the people at that time that their persecution was so immediate. And then for us, it's. We're trying to think through, and there might be an exceptional case every few years. How do we really intentionally engage, hey, I want to suffer with Christ, or I'm going to do that. How do we engage that if it's so. If it's so even avoided or subdued in our culture, where it's not even an affront to anyone?
[00:10:15.03] - Deb Nava
Yeah, that's a really great question.
[00:10:18.99] - Mitchell Buchanan
We'll see you next week.
[00:10:22.14] - Deb Nava
Yeah. So there is an intentionality with engaging our. Anytime we say yes to Jesus, I think we're inviting the possibility of some type of persecution, whether it's from, like, our families who are like, you're wasting your time, or what are you doing with your life and what are you going to do with a Bible degree? And in some cases, you know, that can be people like being disowned by their families or no longer receiving the kind of, like, support or moral support, any of that kind of stuff. And so in a way, you kind of get a disconnected from the one, like, source of, you know, connection in your life, and you're having to, as a young person or even older, you know, deciding to, like, follow Jesus in this way where we're saying, yes, we want to serve the poor. We want to engage with, like, refugees and immigrants and do this kind of work where there's no, like, immediate payoff. I think from the outside for, like, family members or whoever, they're gonna look at that as, like, kind of just a waste of time. And I think in. And it might not be like this a neuro type of suffering, you know, obviously. But I think in some way or another, all of us have had, like, slander from people from our churches back home or rumors told about us, told about Greg and Tara and having to, with a lot of faith, be able to say, like, I know, you know, like, I know that what I'm doing is we are following Jesus and this is the way, you know, and to not be afraid of having those conversations. Cause I know specifically there was a time where there was a lot of that happening, you know? Cause even though, you know, I'm from Farmington, New Mexico, which is, like, other side of the country, I was getting emails and texts from people who were like, what do you guys. What's happening over there? And it's like, how did you find out? It was like people were intentionally making sure that my church back home knew that we were a part of some cult or whatever. And that was their way of trying to. And it's like, I'm 18 years removed from living there. But somehow people came out of the woodwork to, like, hey, just to be, like, really angry about it. And I don't know why they were so personally, like, you know, felt affronted by it. But for some reason, it really offended them or bothered them. And it was like they had to come out and make sure they knew that I knew how they felt about it and make sure my parents knew how they felt about it. And it was like having to engage with those things with a lot of faith and not wavering and being like, actually, I don't know. I'm not sure. But I was so sure, I never doubted for a moment. And I think a lot of us have had to engage with that kind of persecution and just engaging it with just a lot of faith and saying, like, I'm not afraid of what you have to say because I'm sure of it, you know? And, yeah, like, you're saying, like, we're not, you know, nobody's, like, throwing us into, like, a fiery pit or anything like that. But I think because of the way our culture has shifted. Social currency is so important. And when that gets damaged or when it gets, you know, anything happens to it, building up that, like, that kind of status again, to be, like, accepted or to be seen as, like, legitimate is costly, you know, and it takes time to rebuild that or to, like, gain trust again.
[00:14:04.46] - Mitchell Buchanan
And, yeah, it's. You can't move to the next town and have, you know, a fresh start or there's an element, I think, in, you know, one. Peter, wherever. That's an interesting thought. You brought up a social currency because I think once our community, once those allegations or those even something that would be taboo. Oh, are they a cult? Once that kind of gets attached, it is. It's not as if it's, you know, it shouldn't be unexpected. I think that was a lot of Jason's sermon, was that it should be expected of what we're going to endure. And then. But it's not easy to shirk off or to even correct, like, no, right? Come talk to any of us here. Here's what we do. You can look up how we file our taxes or how we do whatever. It doesn't matter. And I think it does have a longstanding, you know, and it is marked in some way for our community that. And I think following Jesus example, being marked as an outsider or someone who's not normative should be something that we expect. It should be something that we can walk in with a confidence that we're following Jesus. It doesn't matter what you talk about. It's you're gonna have to contend with our fruit. You're gonna have to contend with how we live with the word that we live out and try to engage every day. So just relying on that confidence in, I think, who God has made us should make it to where regardless of that fiery ordeal that we're going to pass through or that is even that confronts us, we don't change. You know, that's the hope. That's the grit. Part of it is that we, rather than us trying to maneuver out of the situation when we're faced with that suffering, our option is to just rejoice, which is super powerful. And it shows that I am so confident in who I am, I'm not just going to endure this. I'm going to endure it where I am, you know, proclaiming I'm rejoicing. I am, like, standing on the fact verbally, you know, or socially that, like, I'm following the Lord. So if you want to say something, I'll have a conversation about it, which most people don't even want to do that. It's just, you know, a different tactic.
[00:16:24.23] - Jason Carpenter
So, yeah, I mean, I think in the text, even it's a big part of it is don't be surprised. You know, as if it's something that's strange. It's like he's like, look, this is gonna happen. So I think for us, we should also not be surprised. And like Deb was saying, rejoicing is like, this muscle that you develop as, like, a reaction to suffering. And if we don't practice that or, like, use that muscle, then when it is time to use it under pressure, it won't be ready, you know? So I think for us, though, we may not experience, like, the fires of Nero, we do have to learn to develop that mechanism, that response of rejoicing, for sure.
[00:17:10.64] - Mitchell Buchanan
And when I think you. The example that Jason brought up is rejoicing is like an expression of faith that has muscles and authority. Did you. Is that your thought? And you're giving that metaphor for it, that if we're not working that muscle out, we can't actually rejoice how we need to. Or what was your connection?
[00:17:30.42] - Deb Nava
Yeah, I was thinking about how. How powerful it is when you are in a moment with somebody and you see their response of rejoicing in a moment where you're, like, you're personally offended by it because you're like, dang, you know, like, how does someone respond like that in a moment like that? But it's so powerful. But then, you know, it's like, this isn't. This isn't new for them or, like, they're exercising this on their regs. So, like, when those moments come, that is their. That's, you know, the. The knee jerk response is rejoicing. And I think if you. When those moments come up in your life and you're not responding in that way, instead you're becoming, like, despondent or weary or whatever, and that becomes your normal response. The opportunities for rejoicing are still there, but if you're not doing that, that muscle gets weak, and it doesn't have the power that it could have if you were responding in the way of, like, rejoicing and with that faith and with, like, grit and those. I think I had mentioned about how, like, maybe not, but how the hard stuff is the opportunity, right? So, like, when it's coming, it's like. And we know we're not supposed to be surprised. Like, this is the thing. This is part of it.
[00:18:46.50] - Mitchell Buchanan
You're in it.
[00:18:47.24] - Deb Nava
You are serving Jesus. So don't be surprised. But if you are getting caught off guard, that means you're not spending time with the Lord or you're not engaging prayer, you're not spending time in worship. And so that muscle gets weak. And it's like, those are the times where we really get. Because it's so easy to say yes to Jesus and be happy when everything is going well and things are smooth and things are fine. But, man, when those moments come, and that's our response, it is so powerful and it speaks to so many people, and it serves as this example of, like, this is possible and there is a way. And I think we've had, like I mentioned, like, we've had those experiences in our community on so many different people have responded in those ways. That's just like, it's mind blowing. Cause you're like, oh, whoa. And it just sticks with you. Kind of like how I mentioned that experience with that young woman in China, seeing her rejoice in this way and sing a new song before the Lord because she was so excited to receive her certificate. But then knowing, like, as soon as she leaves, it's like she's walking right back into everything that's gonna make life hard for her again. But it's like seeing those moments happen are just so powerful. And it. But it gives you this. It sticks with you because then you're like, I know it's possible.
[00:20:12.92] - Mitchell Buchanan
And what you highlighted at the. I think the back half of your sermon is unexpected where it sticks with you because it is so unexpected, where the expected response in the middle of suffering is to be despondent or to retreat or to really just have a breakdown moment where you're kind of just collecting yourself. And I think rejoicing is the opposite of any of those. Even at the last podcast we did on grit with Grant, he just reference his experience of losing his wife and then going back to teach at the academy shortly thereafter, like the next month or two. And it's the most expected thing would be, hey, I need to have a moment. I need to take a season. And I think, you know, he even admitted, maybe this wasn't the best way to process my grief. That could be the case, and there could be mistakes made, but it is unexpected, his response in the midst of suffering. And I think it leads people to stand back and say, like, what's going on? Is there something that's driving Grant that he has a faith or has something that God is calling him to? Or is this just a mistake that's happening either way, it takes. It's like that burning Bush. It takes people's notice. And like, I need to be examining what's happening here because it's nothing like everyone else, right? Which it's just knowing the power in being, in responding unexpectedly is so fun as a believer because it doesn't require anything else for me but to listen and obey. Hey, I, like, know God's word. I know how I'm supposed to respond, and I just do that. And that's what provides that spark for the rest of the world for sure, to see that, you know, that city on a hill or just we're living us, we're doing us, and that's great because, you know, if we do that, if we live out God's word, it is going to be this spectacle where people are like, this is not what I'm used to. This is not the world around. Yeah, yeah, it's super cool. And then a question I had on the rejoicing, and this is just my intuitive take, so correct me if I'm wrong, we will. 15 minutes later, I'm just tears down my face. Yes, Jason. But I think with this responding and rejoicing, intuitively, I feel like we're not doing this as much as we should as a church community. So just trying to process, like, what is holding us back. Because I just think back on my experience the last 1015 years being here, it felt, you know, again, it felt like we had maybe more times together where obviously I didn't have four kids, you know, 1520 years ago, so I had more time to be with people. Yeah, we probably had more times of worship or informal hangouts or more people did intramurals where we had lessons that we learned, where less people do it now. Just natural things, I think, as we age and then just trying to process where I think a lot of our rejoicing and suffering is probably just digitally communicated. Like, I'll post on workplace or, hey, I'm instagramming this because it is vulnerable to post what you're going through, but it is still like a digital platform where it feels that it might dull or curb, I think, that emotional connection we should have with one another, where it is you shared that you were in the midst of just a lot of turmoil as a family, and there was a moment where you worshipped. You came down front and you were jumping. And that people seeing that and, like, feeling, I think your response in the middle of that impacted them. You know, it's like, are we shortchanging ourselves because we're doing that digitally, or is it just a matter of our world is different than it was 20 years ago? We need to recalibrate how we are processing that rejoicing. You know what I'm saying?
[00:24:04.91] - Deb Nava
Yeah, yeah. Gosh, that's.
[00:24:07.92] - Jason Carpenter
Yeah, I had. I had a couple of thoughts. Like, one is, I think that formative time in our history, like, even as us here, like, we're kind of contemporary at the institute when we went as undergrads, like, those are formative years, right? So, like, just because we're not in those years anymore doesn't mean those years still don't matter, you know? Like, those opportunities we had to develop that muscle, if we're going to use that analogy, should bear fruit now. So even though we may not have all those times that we used to have, we get to experience the benefit of having those times now, you know? And then I think also, like you said, it's just like our life circumstances are different, you know, like, practically speaking. But I do really enjoy when we do get those venues, like, a retreat type event, which I think we've. Over the years, we've done, like, more or less in certain years, but I've appreciated our commitment to those times because it does kind of, like, create, like, a venue for those sort of expressions.
[00:25:14.90] - Mitchell Buchanan
Yeah, we definitely have to be more opportunistic in moments. Even just worship on Sundays. Like, if we aren't engaging that for what it could be, you know, because just naturally, circumstances have changed. We probably, you know, there's literally more people. We have children amongst us. There's less time that we will be able to get together for us because we're getting. Making bake sales happen down the road, or this soccer game or that basketball game, there's stuff that we're facilitating, and I don't think. And again, this came as just my intuitive thoughts. So I don't think we're prioritizing, like, hey, Jacoby's basketball is more important than, like, spiritual enrichment for a family. But I think that schedule can be its own grind, and it's like, hey, I. I know I have to make this happen, and then maybe spiritual enrichment is something that I, in my heart, prioritize, but it doesn't come out in my schedule.
[00:26:15.16] - Deb Nava
Also, I don't think we should underestimate, I mean, the power of sharing a meal, which I know your family does really great. You're always inviting us over, and I think, at least even for our family, the moments that even getting to invite institute students over or some of the other singles that we wouldn't normally have a shared venue with just sharing a meal with them and being able to share those stories or, like, ask how the Lord is working in their life. Because I think, like, you're saying, I mean, like, our lives are so different than they were, but I love being able to, like, engage, like, the current students now. And I hearing from them, like, what's their moment? What is the Lord doing for them? Because it's like, we had people doing that for us. And I'm trying. I try to kind of, like, emulate, like, oh, man, I was poured into so much. And I want to do that for the students here or some of the newer people that are coming around and giving them that moment of, like, let's share a meal. And, like, I want to hear what. Who are you? What's God doing in your life? And how has he, like, showed up and what are you learning? And I giving them those times to kind of exercise, talking about the moments they, because how they are rejoicing in their moment now. But I think there is a lot of power to those moments. Even though they're not as grand or as big or as many people, there's just still a lot of power, I think, in sitting around a table and just being able to have those conversations and share stories and bring people into a history that they're part of now and be like, man, did you know this happened, like, you know, 1015 years ago or whatever, and being able to share, you know, share in that rich history that we have a faith together and people who have demonstrated that kind of grit over, you know, the last, you know, 20 plus years, you know, like, that we've all been given the gift of witnessing. But I think there's a lot of even, like, I don't know, I think being able to capitalize on, like, those moments that are, you know, out in between, like, the soccer and the. And the school and whatever, all those things are like, I think being, I guess, like, further along in my faith journey, being able to find somebody who's, like, who's. Who's new to it or who's new to this. To this story that making moments, you know, intentional times to be like, hey, I want to spend some time and share these things with you.
[00:28:56.36] - Mitchell Buchanan
Yeah, I think digitally, the just trying to process, you know, because us connecting with it with each other digitally and really framing that in, like, suffering and rejoicing. And I think, you know, instagram is an instant I gram of what is happening in your day or TikTok is recording what is happening as the seconds pass by. So it's just kind of a passing moment. And so I think both of them should be utilized or social media in general utilize. This is process or like, hey, this is kind of where I'm going through. So I don't think it's an action of negating that. I don't think it'd be possible in the world we live in, totally not participate. So I think engaging those in those forms where we are maybe processing our day. But I think to expect those platforms to carry the power of a person, which even Paul would write in Romans, like, I'm writing to you because I can't be with you. And that there's an acknowledged differentiation in a writing or a medium that's not an interaction with a person. It's different.
[00:30:12.44] - Deb Nava
It's different.
[00:30:13.21] - Mitchell Buchanan
And so I think in those moments where we are rejoicing, being opportunistic, where we gather together for church, prioritizing that, of saying, hey, I'm going to make efforts to be there, because even if I can watch online, it is a tool. It is better to have that or to re watch it. But I think we're kind of struggling against how do we process our faith? And do we rely too much, maybe digitally than we should? And I think utilizing those properly, where we can process our moments and just share quick updates, but having a differentiation where this can never convey the power of my person. And I think if we buy into that false identity where I am fully represented here, or if it's not instagram, did it really happen? Or if it's not recorded, did it really happen? No. Our person can't be summed up in that. Just how Paul isn't summed up in his writings. It's the power of his person. He'll say in corinthians, it's the letters he's writing. It's people that are those letters. It's not the actual documents he's sending to people. So I think there's not a singular this you should or shouldn't post this. And by all means, I think when people post it is a vulnerable act in and of itself. It is, you know, writing out how you're thinking or feeling and sharing it with people that you know and love. So I don't want to disregard any of those. I just think we all together have to push past those and have and really invite and demonstrate those vulnerable moments of rejoicing with one another.
[00:31:53.35] - Deb Nava
Right?
[00:31:53.69] - Jason Carpenter
For sure.
[00:31:54.34] - Mitchell Buchanan
You know, because if you didn't have that moment, worshiping with everyone else in a way that was just totally surrendered to the Lord. We all missed out. You know, if you are just kind of keeping that to our little rectangles of processing, then we're shortchanging this life that should not be shortchanged, because it requires us as brothers and sisters to be so engaged with one another that it's like this is how we image the spirit of the Lord is this interaction, this relationship, this process together, where we are shouldering the burdens, the sufferings that we have and rejoicing with one another.
[00:32:35.66] - Deb Nava
So, yeah, absolutely.
[00:32:37.44] - Mitchell Buchanan
Did you all want to say anything else to touch on or anything that sparked.
[00:32:41.24] - Jason Carpenter
I feel pretty satisfied, gotta say.
[00:32:48.29] - Mitchell Buchanan
But I think your sermon was great. I think for people who don't know your story, because you mentioned just from life circumstances, you all been hit from seemingly wave after wave the last few years, being able to share that with more people, because I think the more that we are able to not just focus on, hey, this is a moment we had in our past where we endured suffering, or wasn't it hard being a school that wasn't accredited and now we are. And it's like, looking back, it's that even on the life circumstances, which is like, we're human beings, we have to open ourselves up. Because I think we all are being hit with things every day that life can just beat us down. And I think we have to be the people that can find the Lord in the midst of all those circumstances, for sure. Because I think a text like this, where we really highlight, oh, Christ's sufferings, let me think back to those seminal moments where I can pinpoint that it's like, hey, if you're discounting, I think the moment you're in, where it's like, hey, I look around my seven, you know, the last seven days of my life, and all I can think of is suffering. You need to share that with people. We need to have moments where that can be, you know, exercise, and then find the moments to rejoice in the middle of that. So that was one other thing I didn't want to. I know the sermon kind of led through those different elements of suffering. Don't discount any of them, because suffering is real for all of us. It happens every day. And I think we need to, you know, help each other rejoice in the midst of those.
[00:34:20.53] - Deb Nava
Yeah, for sure.
[00:34:22.09] - Mitchell Buchanan
But thank you for joining us. I'll clap right in front of my face on the podcast. We love being able to talk through sermons. I think hear one another's heart and just push for more and more truth in this conversation, in every other conversation we have this week, I pray that we can invite God's word and then really dig into what does grit look like for us. So thanks for watching, listening, and we'll see you next week.
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